All this jibberjabber about hub motors has me pining for a concept that caught my eye a long time ago- well, a long time in e-bike years. The Hammarhead Volta. Dig it bitches. A lightweight traditional tube double loop frame with spoked wheels, awesome range because you can fit crap-tons of batteries in it ’cause the motor’s in the wheel- and fast- ’cause it’s light. Everything I love.
Except, I want this motor- but in it’s not-quite-ready yet form… This is the hub motor from ZEV, which has a couple of things about it that awesomely awesome. It measures just over 11″ in diameter. It has some serious cooling built into the housing, along with the integrated wheel acting as a bigass heat sink. (That’s technical talk, don’t worry, I have proper authorization to use such terminology…) They use oil as “a wetting agent to help transfer heat into every nook and cranny. It also is a an anti arc and burnout issue.” AND, (omgomgomg) They “are working on a big hub motor in the 25-30 Kw range with a motorcycle type mount and wheel”
…
UPDATE: Dateline 2/6/2011
Less than a year after I posted this, I just saw this news- Developing a dual-stator, 20KW/60KW peak hub motor for the Catamount TTXGP team, Mark Gelbien at EnerTrac has delivered what they promised. Read the details here.
The word from ZEV? “The new motor will be delayed as we work on what seems to be the most un attended customer group.”
Yeah. OK. Lame. …and congrats to Mark and the EnerTrac/Catamount team!
(resume transmission)
…
That should give me plenty of time to collect parts- in particular, a frame.
Now, here’s the funny thing… I love me a good double-downtube frame, and you need to go back to the ’70′s to find something like that. I’ve been looking at the Norton, Triumph and Rickman frames- but the first two are for bigger bikes, the Rickman is for an off-road 125 size, normally… They did to a 250, but still off-road. If I could find a Rickman roadracing frame, I’m sure I’d get strung up for converting it.
So, I says to myself, “What’s a nice little road-racer around the 250cc range that was around in the ’70s?” I says… Holy crap. Of course. The venerable Yamaha RD350. Now, this sudden realization and tortured path to such realization wouldn’t be so all-fired embarrassing if not for the fact that the very first bike I ever blueprinted and built was, yes, an RD350.
As my wife is fond of saying, I don’t know if I just have one stick, or if I have two, but I haven’t figured out how to rub them together yet…
(Shown, is the “Killer Bee” from Ryan Carden’s awesome site.)
Oh. Just found this. Sweetness. A frame made for electric.
OOOH. Just found this site… the RD frame was the same design as the TZ350 race bike- but the TZ was considerably lighter. It looks like eleventy million guys built frames for the TZ for years after it was new- all improvements.
Here’s one, it’s a beauty!
(Update: Hoo boy… guess what I found?)
The Electric Chronicles on Facebook
Ted the EnerTrac motor does 30KW now without oil cooling because its eff is high enough that it does need the complexity of oil cooling, you only do liquid cooling if you have to. When EnerTrac gets into the 50KW range in the same size motor (10 inch) then oil cooling will be implemented into the design. EnerTrac isn’t sitting still either we will have a new motor next year, that will really impress. By the way does that scooter poop wheelies cause my dirt bikes sure can. Scooters and vintage motorcycles – apples and oranges if you ask me.
Take the Zev for a ride then ride the Volta then make comments or if your in NY take any one of my test bikes for a ride. The Zev guys should contact me I’d sell them motors and save them a ton on R&D, pulling a wheelie on a scooter, now that would make a good video
Mark
Just to be clear, the motor I was mentioning above is 25-30kW continuous. Except it doesn’t exist. But I still want it.
Ted,
Very disappointed that you would muddy your fine work with Scooter nonsense. IMHO, if you can wear a skirt while riding it, you should.
- Zoom
But I have great legs!
Well, first, this is more about hub motors than scooters. I think they have some amazing potential.
Second, I’m a two-wheel power slut hoe-bag. I’ll ride anything. Hell, I even ride an electric BMX, dude…
That’s the thing Ted your comparing something that has potential (maybe) with something you can buy now. If you play EnerTrac for what It has now play them the same or talk about my great potential vs. there great potential. This is where fair reporting and credible reviews come from. So you talk about my here and now products with there potential OK great. I guess is to try and motivate them to copy or better my products and business model, thanks
um, I suggest you read my post again, Mark. First, since I didn’t even mention your motor, there’s no comparison being made. Second, I discussed their current motor. I merely mentioned what they were working on. The point of my post was more about the type of bike, enabled by hub motors.
I was planning on doing a piece on the future of hub motors, including yours. Do you want to fill me in on what you’re working on, to the extent that you’re comfortable? Please see my DM responses to you.
As far as fair and credible reporting and reviews, I think you’re way off-base to suggest I’m favoring a product by simply discussing them…
So I did reread
A lightweight traditional tube double loop frame with spoked wheels, awesome range because you can fit crap-tons of batteries in it ’cause the motor’s in the wheel- and fast- ’cause it’s light.
Everything I love.
Except, I want this motor- but in it’s not-quite-ready yet form… This is the hub motor from ZEV, which has a couple of things about it that awesomely awesome. It measures just over 11″ in diameter. It has some serious cooling built into the housing, along with the integrated wheel acting as a bigass heat sink. (That’s technical talk, don’t worry, I have proper authorization to use such.
You want this motor why did you test this motor in a full size motorcycle frame NO
You want this motor because of paper spec’s got a eff number? got a RPM/volt, anything tangible that a technical person might actually say I want this motor NO. Again you want this motor cause its got oil running through it OK and a by your observation the wheel is a big ass heatsink.
So you want this motor for emotional reasons monetary reason why its certainly not performance reasons as you never tested it or even know the performance, it may be great as I’m sure the people over at Zev are brilliant and there scooter products really do look great
but come on to say and I quote:
Everything I love.
Except, I want this motor by (picture)
If this doesn’t imply you don’t want the motor the Volta comes with I don’t what does
As far as fair and credible reporting and reviews, I think I’m not off-base to suggest you’re favoring a product with out testing and implying the motor that comes with the Volta is not the one you want, without testing anything.
I’ll put it to rest here
Mark
I suggest you check your mail. The “mjgelb@” account. Let’s continue this there.
Thanks Mark! Is that 30kW a peak, or constant? The only motors I saw on EnerTrac were rated at 10kW, am I missing something? I am NUTS waiting to see where hub motor development is going, and can’t wait to see what you come up with! (By the way, check out Marks site for more info on what he’s offering- http://www.enertrac.net/product.php)
For sure- vintage racers and scooters are completely different animals… and you can bet your butt I’ll take you up on your offer!
Yes It’s 30KW peak 10 KW continuous, but this seems how all hub motors are rated. Numbers are just claims its the test ride that gives one the understanding of a motors worth, be it Electric or gas.
I was having fun with a Piaggio MP3 Scooter yesterday blew him off the line we talked at red lights
He was a old guy with a heavy Italian accent, He got it by the third light.
Mark
(see comment above)
Somehow you’ve missed the point of this post. Do I want an Volta? No. I want to build my own bike based on a small, tube, roadracing frame like the RD350. Do I want your motor? No, not unless it’s 18″ and a continuous 25-30kW.
Do I think there is a motor like that? Of course not. ZEV is the first I’d heard of an ultra-powerful hub motor for a motorcycle. Until you tell me otherwise, that is the only motor I can talk about. Do I think your motor sucks? Of course not.
In fact, I think in many ways your product is unsurpassed for performance and application in motorcycles. You service is beyond anything I’ve ever heard of. So chill out. Just because I make a post saying I want a bike like this, except different, doesn’t mean I’m saying the bike is crap or some other bike is better.
Any person with basic comprehension skills can read from this I’m talking about vaporware- products that are promised, but don’t yet, and may never exist. You said elsewhere this business is all about talk, talk, talk… You’ve got that wrong.
It’s about dreams. And this is mine.
Comments closed.
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